AI in Recruiting: Game-Changer or Overhyped?

Full transcript

so welcome back to the podcast guys today we're joined by rich rosen rich welcome to the podcast Hey, thanks for having me. so us why don't we start this by you telling us a little bit about yourself rich and what what have you been up to Yeah, so I have been recruiting for software sales reps and execs for startup software companies for over 30 years, actually. Us, so place, God, almost 1300 sales reps, pre -sales folks, sales leaders, VPs of marketing, CROs, advisors, board members, uh, with some of the best startups, you know, in the world, um, helping them build these companies up from, you know, oftentimes from seed funding to, and from revenue to, you know, several hundreds of millions of dollars. And, um, yeah, it's been awesome. Um, you know, I've been a small little firm, I've been recognized as, you know, one of the best in the, in the, in the country or in the world by Forbes last six years. Um, done to the top 50 and, uh, yeah, the has been an awesome ride.

okay and the over the span of these 30 years how do you think have recruitment strategies changed for these saas startups Um, I don't know if the, you know, the recruitment strategy hasn't changed. I think it's the same dumb strategy many times that it's been for 30 years. Um, you know, I see so many companies make the same mistakes of hiring salespeople before they hire marketing people. And then they wonder why they guys, these guys, the first guys in get burnt out when there's no, there's zero rate name recognition. But, you know, ultimately like my process has changed greatly, um, on how we're working and doing things with AI. But, um, I think hiring companies, they've kind of got, they all want to do the side. Most companies want to do same tried and true and don't want to break a pattern, um, whether it worked or not. So, yeah. so how are you using ai you mentioned ai and so like what are you guys doing with it

Yeah, I use AI extensively. I mean, I have, I mean, I'm, i, i, I've been as high as number 11 on the Forbes list and I'm a solo operator. Um, you know, and so I try to maximize every second of the day that I can. So I use AI you everything from, you know, writing emails to generating job descriptions to, you know, just helping with search, you know, the, uh, on research the companies to, uh, even on now just over the weekend employed, uh, testing out an executive assistant AI bot. now now Which is actually pretty cool. Um, little, needs a little, little love to it still, but it's, it's got a lot of promise. Um, but I, I also use to a lot of N8N agents for, um, BD work and yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, pretty tied into AI. So. okay and uh like uh when what do you see as the biggest mistake that these SaaS companies do when hiring sales reps Yeah. Yeah. think I so many SaaS companies, they, they're always looking for what's wrong with people.

They don't look for what's right with people. And they're, you know, I don't know if you're a big, you know, U S football fan, you know, but they, us, you know, Tom Brady, best quarterback ever. know, he lost three Superbowls and people would rather hire, you know, technically rather hire Eli Manning who won two, you know, and. You know, it's close to the 10 that Tom Brady went to. At, theyre just look at the losses, not all the wins and amazing things. guy, The guys, guy's done. I think that happens all the time when sales guys are, are interviewing clients are like, well, you know, he had a bad year. They forget it was COVID or they forget that, you know, they run a talk about why. Like, He, yeah, bad year. It was just a bad year. So it's the. Fact that, you know, they don't realize they, well, the company had, you know, product had a monster hole or they ran out of funding or whatever.

So, companies are too eager to look at what's wrong. I mean, like I said, instead of what's right with someone and understand, Hey, this guy at a startup sold, you know, million a plus dollars worth of deals in year one. That's pretty damn impressive. Instead, many of them, I just had this conversation last week are, you know, well, I don't know any of those companies. The guy's thats, so how do I know if he's any good, but they'd rather hire a guy from like a Salesforce or a, of, a at databricks, which are great companies, but they're not, uh, you're not getting the same sales mentality of a hunter. That's needed. As you have with a guy from a startup, you know, and it's, but, to me, they're just categorically wrong. It's not that they can't do it, but I mean, that's a whole different level of screening. Those guys are going to have to do to make sure that someone from a big, big, big company.

It was generally managing more accounts than they're hunting out. And even the ones that are hunting out, it's still, you're hunting with a giant name behind you and a, you know, a hundred billion dollar, you know, marketing machine, essentially. A little bit of different animal than, you know, Joe Blow's company that no one's heard of. All, I mean, and you've got to do all the work. There's no playbook. There's no SDR. There's no marketing. There's no, a, I mean, there's no sales script. I mean, you've got to create it all. So, you. uh, you know, that's categorically one of the biggest problems that companies are doing right now. And they think they're safer by hiring a guy that was successful at Oracle than a guy that may have had three jobs in six years or eight years. At, of, at a, at a bunch of startups who he did well, he did well, but oftentimes, you know, companies run out of money, leadership changes, you know, hundreds of different problems can go on.

Thank you. And I don't know if you mentioned this, but how did you actually get into this industry? Like, were you a sales rep before or? So I was the youngest stockbroker in the country at one point in the U .S. I, was in college, still managing about $150 million for this big broker at Dean Witter and, uh, loved it. I mean, I was been investing since I was like 15 and just had a knack for it. And, i, for know, crushed it for this guy. Longer story, longer story than we have time for. you. He went a little crazy. I was like, I'm really good. This is 21, 22. I'm like, probably not, not the right situation. So I moved back to Boston, worked as a broker you. in you. Boston for this guy is on this you. rookie program. He had to deal this apprenticeship basically. Should he took a huge pay cut to go do it, but like, whatever, I made a bunch of money. I can afford it. So let's test it out and I'll go off my own after six months.

Go, was the number one rookie broker in the office. I have a big office at Dean Witter, which is now, I think the part of Morgan. Um, but dean, in was a big, big, big firm at the time. And, um, you know, I was the number one guy after six months and the guy wouldn't let me go in my office. And I said, you. that's great. I'm leaving. So, yeah, I'm going on my own or not for the, uh, shit pay that we're getting. I'm just, it's not worth my time anymore. And, um, I left there, got into recruiting two weeks later, made $40 ,000. So I was all of 23 in nine, 10 days. Um, closed two deals fast. So I think it's the fastest still in the history at Manitou Search. And, um, was the number one, I think I was, I was the number one or every month or top five every month at the very worst. I had about 77 recruiters, uh, manager recruiters. And, uh, after six months, I left one on my own.

So I've been on my own since I was, uh, 23. So, so, which is now 31 years ago. So, um, yeah, but it's been an awesome run. I absolutely love this job. love, I you know, when I get clients that want to partner, this is the absolute best job. You know, uh, a lot of fun. You meet a lot of great people. You really can help build something special. A, when you get companies, you know, at this point I've been doing it you. for so long. I, um, you know, I really look for people that want to partner. I, I tend to drop clients or just not take them on. If they're just looking for a vendor, you know, some cheap guy to throw a resume over the fence. I'm probably not your guy. If you want to actually, that's going to really help you hire, right? Make sure you have success. Uh, I'm absolutely, you know, I will work 20 hours a day, 24 hours a day for you. Am, you know, they kind of say, you don't get burnt out from, uh, you. underappreciation.

And, um, you know, I, to me, it's like your clients that want to make things happen. I, I, I, their best asset. So I've helped build literally some of the best software companies in the world. Say. Who have you been able to help the most? Oh, probably like Tableau. I mean, I, Tableau was an awesome company. I mean, I've worked with them since they're about, you know, 10 million in revenue up till, you know, there are several hundreds of millions. Up, you know, the, we, I placed their first sales RVPs. I placed most of their top reps, top, top sales engineers. Up, I, even today I work with, you know, all the managers and leaders that were from, you know, helped build the company up back in the infancy to their acquisition, uh, are still great clients of mine today. So great, absolutely great, um, great group of people. So, but my, my standard companies are startups, you know, seed round series, a, B, C, uh, type software companies, you know, companies that are looking to grow their go to market that. Um, honestly, old school, uh, cold calls, emails, LinkedIn content is awesome, obviously.

Uh, and referrals. mean, referrals are, are the lifeblood of this business, but, um, you know, I think that, you know, cold, just making random cold calls nowadays, I think they're great. I still do them and they're effective, but I think content is like some of the most effective. Change you. if And you had a magic wand, what would you change about the recruiting industry today? What would I change? That you. it's, it's, there's a lot of things I'd probably change because it's unfortunate that recruiting gets a bad rep. You know, it's a low bar to entry. There's a lot of jokers in it that just waste people's time. Um, which then in turn, you know, a lot of clients and companies don't take the profession serious. They kind of think you're, you know, a second, third tier, you know, kind of salesperson. When the reality is you're, you're absolutely not. And chances are good recruiters probably make more than anyone at their company from the CEO on down. So, um, you know, and they're absolutely valuable resources. Recruiters are, um, you know, part marketing, part sales, you know, operations.

They, they can be a huge asset, especially to a young company. I introduce my clients to, uh, my partners all the time, other clients I'm working with, help them get business, help them get funding, um, help them just introduce them to things that I don't even do. Be I don't have advisors. Um, you know, like I said, I like to be a real partner and be part of the company. I even love to get equity in these companies when I can. So, um, I think that's probably one of the biggest things I'd change that. And I'll tell you, I would move recruiting, like recruiting should not be part of HR. It actually is diametrically opposed to HR in many ways. So, uh, you know, recruiting industry should be reporting to the unit, you know, the VPs of that department. They should not be, you know, selling to HR people. Not, no offense to the HR folks, but it's, it's, you. it's not an HR function. It's a, it's human hiring. It's not a human resources more there to protect the company. And I think they oftentimes, no, overprotect.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And you've been running this for over 30 years. So, I guess the question, what's next? What's your vision for cornerstone search over the next few years? Um, you know, I, we just keep, we're, I'm, I am busy as I've ever, ever have been. So just keep rolling, you know, there's no, um, my kids are graduating college. They may get into it. They may not get into it. We'll see. But, you know, eventually we will, uh, sell off into the sunset. So, uh, you know, it's getting closer and closer every day, but, um, it stops being fun. I'll stop working. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, reach for listeners who want to connect with you or chat with you or just learn more about what you guys do. Where can do? you Where can they find you? Yeah. The best is LinkedIn, Where know, you you? find Rosen, Cornerstone Search. Is, you know, follow me on LinkedIn. Um, I try to connect with everyone. I, I'm actually maxed on a LinkedIn connections. Believe it or not, they, they cap you at like 30 ,000 first level connections.

Out, but I got a big following post a lot. So definitely that's, that's usually the best place to go or you can hit my website at cornerstone search .com. And, um, the find yeah, that's usually the best. All right. All right. All right. Well, thanks, Rich, for joining the podcast and we'll see you in the next one. The. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been great. Thank you. Thank you.